[X&Y] "Dinner And Drinks...Then Sex?" [Question From A Woman]

Published: Wed, 11/13/19

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WHAT'S INSIDE:  Audrey in Florida wonders aloud about the whole
pressure-packed "dinner date" scenario and why it's what EVERY guy
seems to plan.

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LETTER FROM A WOMAN:  DINNER, DRINKS...AND SEX?
 
 
Dear Scot and Emily,
 
Thank you very much for the insights. I really enjoy reading both
of your newsletters.
 
I don't know if you've taken up this topic before, but there's a
question that's been bugging me for a long time and I can't get a
straight answer.
 
Here is the scenario:
 
I've been living in the US for 12 years and time and again I've run
across this idea where apparently, after a girl has gone on a date
with a guy 1-3 times, she's expected to sleep with him because
well...he bought her dinner or drinks or whatever.
 
Because of that, I've never really allowed a man to buy me dinner
and have always insisted on paying my half because well...I don't
really know him (blind dates, etc.) and I don't think that it's
fair that he's got to buy me dinner, etc.
 
And then I really get infuriated when the mentioned guy hints that
I owe him because well... he didn't buy me dinner for nothing and
that makes me feel like a slut just to hear that.
 
(I never contact those men afterwards, but it doesn't change the
fact that I feel bad because well, they did spend money.)
 
By the way, my female friends tell me that it is normal to allow a
guy to buy you dinner, etc., and that it's not right for me to
insist upon buying my half (especially when I don't know the guy).
 
They think that there's something wrong with me, and I don't see
how they don't take offense to a guy letting them know that he
expects something in return from those dates (sex).
 
Of course, if I like the guy and we make out, that's a different
story, but I don't sleep with someone after 3 dates--I don't know
the guy and that makes me uncomfortable. 
 
Have I missed a step here? Am I overreacting? Is that what I should
expect out of my generation? (I'm 22 years old).
 
 
Sincerely,
 
Audrey in Florida



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Hello Audrey.  Thanks for writing.

Since this is a newsletter primarily for men, I'm going to address
them directly in my comments, but rest assured that you'll find the
answers you are asking for in context.

So on with it, guys...let's have an up-front conversation here.

First of all, I trust you didn't miss the part above about how
Audrey is only 22 years old but has been led to believe for the
entire 12 years she's been in the US that "men pay for dates and
women return the favor with sex".

Oh, and that three dates is the deadline for the deal to be
consummated.

In other words, this has been her understanding all the way back
since she was in 5th grade or so.

And even more intriguing is the simple fact that ALL her
girlfriends appear to believe this is "normal"...and pretty much the
default standard for dating in this culture.

Are you with me so far?

Alright then, next go and try to wrap your head around the fact
that Audrey appears to be a perfectly sane and pleasant young woman
who seems to LIKE MEN.

Don't get her wrong.  She's not angry.  She's not spiteful.  She's
just FED UP, that's all.

And guess what?

As shocking as it may sound, I'd bet good money on the fact that
her girlfriends aren't exactly PLEASED with the established
routine either...they just FOLLOW a man's lead in terms of planning
dates--as they generally prefer to.

Does this mean that they all automatically fall in line and have
sex with every guy after the customary three dinner dates?   Not
at all.

It simply means that they have come to EXPECT the same old drill.

Every.  Single.  Time.

Lookit...you just can't follow a formula when it comes to taking
women out and expect sexual "compliance".

I'd dare say that logic applies ESPECIALLY to THIS "formula".

After all, taking a woman out to a fancy dinner with an equally
fancy bill only serves to load up the PRESSURE on two people who
really should just want to get to know each other...preferably in a
more casual and relaxed setting.

But worse, it's NO WONDER that women like Audrey tend to feel like
sluts when confronted with sexual pressure in return for dinner and
drinks.

After all, it's perfectly NATURAL that they would.  The whole idea
is tantamount to prostitution...literally.

So female psychology aside, let's talk about YOU for a second.

How did guys like you and me come to believe we had to spend lots
of money in order to impress a woman and/or to leverage her into
sleeping with us?

Do WE like the pressure-packed dinner date any more than women do?

Do we particularly ENJOY training women to treat us like walking
ATM machines...which they WILL if they elect to actually participate
in playing the game of exchanging dinner for sex?

Thankfully, however, you'll probably not ever get around to having
to endure that brand of craziness. 

That's because it's altogether more likely she'll just get creeped
out by the whole deal and not go out with you again. 

And even if she DOES play along with the charade to the expected
conclusion, can we expect any sex that occurs to be fulfilling at
all if it's happening because of a "business deal"?

So then, one has no choice but to ask what genius came up with the
idea of the dinner date as the Gold Standard for dating? 

Should we chalk it up to some weird combination of a perceived
societal need for courtship and utter lack of creativity?

Listen, my gut instinct tells me that you've ALREADY heard about
how bad an idea it is to take women out on dinner dates early on.

You've probably even already heard that paying for expensive
dinners tends to make perfectly decent women feel like whores if
they even KISS you as a direct result of your efforts.

Ultimately then, the most important question boils down to this:
 
 
  If taking women on dinner dates sucks for everyone involved, why on
  Earth do we keep friggin' DOING IT?


We know we're paying too much money to go about things the wrong
way.

I mean, even when Audrey opens her purse and pays half, it STILL
costs BOTH her and the guy she's with TOO MUCH.

Audrey, my guess is that most of the time you end up paying for
half a dinner date at a place that was more expensive than you
NEEDED or even WANTED to eat at, right?

So to wrap this up, I'm going to encourage you Audrey AND the
multitude of guys reading this to "just say no" to dinner dates
from now on.

Forget the pressure.  Forget the games.  Forget the hard feelings.

Just like you very eloquently but subtly mentioned, Audrey, you're
going to kiss the guy if you LIKE him.  The fact that you implied
that the whole dinner date thing is beside the point (at best) is
GOLDEN.

Go somewhere where the expectations aren't any higher than for good
conversation and the chance to build some honest, genuine chemistry
in the easiest way possible.

Go to the park, walk around the lake or meet downtown wherever
people gather in the evening or on a Saturday afternoon. 

If you get hungry and want to grab a quick snack AFTER enjoying
each other's company for a while, that's fine.

And YES Audrey, you can make the alternate suggestion if the guy
leads with the same old, tired dinner date routine. 

He might even be shocked, amazed and THANK you for what he
perceives as you letting him off the hook.

But whatever you do, make it ANYTHING other than go on an
expensive dinner date.

(Well, except the movies.  Don't go there either.)


 



 
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